Guys,
The problem with power fists are they are all too powerful and yet easily available.
A lascannon is powerful but has only 1 shot. a heavy holder does not deal out as much damage per shot but has 3 shouts. Imagine a lascannon having 3 shots...thats what a powerfist is like.
An item should have either high damage, or high number of attacks, not both. Especially one that is so readily available. For high number of attacks, one should use a power sword( which is now seldom used), for high damage against vehicles and monsters, a powerfist should be chosen.
Beacuse of the absolute "powerfulness" and relative ease of equiping an army with numerous powerfists, any tactical finess or plan gets literally "fisted" away by the absolute brute strength of the powerfist.
What i propose
1) limit all powerfist attacks to the profile of the character only. no bonuses for anything else whatsoever. This will cause a choice between anti personnel( choose a powersword) , or anti- monster( powerfist). Powerfist should have limited attacks, but each attack is devestating. ( e.g , heavy bolter vs lascannon). It means an army list will have to be thought through more carefully rather than just equiping a powerfist on anything than can have one.
2) this limitation does not affect walkers or vehicles
What this means;
like choosing to equip with heavy bolters or lascannons, more tactical application of force on the battle field. Don't need powerfists when you need to kill large number of troops. Try to get your powerfist to high value targets. use powerswords for a more effective anti-infantry role.
Terminators may be disadvantaged here, but i am sure they can cope with it.
I feel that it adds for more tactical thinking to the game and yet does not lose any of the fluff.
Your thoughts please
5 comments:
I'm all for having marines reduce number of attacks for powerfists... I will volunteer for test games on these as well.
The problem is, all the other races have "powerfist"-like stuff.
Like Scorpion's claw for example. Eldar Scorps literally need this to give them an edge in H to H with Marines. If you limit this, then Scorps will be quite nerfed.
Or what about Thunder Hammer and Chain Fists ? Should ALL powerfist like weapons be similarly affected?
The point is - if we have a house rule, we should make sure that it still makes things fair for the other non-marine races.
(Note that this proposal affects NONE of my races: I have Blood Angels and Tyranids and maybe Demons - all no powerfist - cue evil laugh *BWAHAHAHA* )
Actually it affects BA, but we are GREAT in hand to hand.. it doesn't really matter.. bwahahaha
yes it should affect chain fists as it is a powerfist with a chain attached.
thunder hammers maybe not, as its usually only limited to HQ choices and not easily available to squad commanders.
As for the scorps, they already have many attacks, that should be the key to taking down any foe, multiple attacks and not high damaging attacks. is the scorpion's claw a powerfist? can you have more than 1 in an army?
We should not think of powerfists as the key to taking down marines, marines are usually outnumbered, that is the weakness.
if an army has relatively few numbers, and is easy to take down, then there is something wrong with the army.
if a space marine ( or terminator) has the same dice roll to kill a gaunt, then whats the point of a marine which are few whereas the gaunts have a horde. you cannot have something thats low in quantity and also low in quality.
we cannot think of just in the context of killing marines. dont forget, there are other power weapons out there. use a power sowrd. Also you kill marines by massing a lot of attacks.
I have got about another 9 powerfist marines sitting on the shelf. imaging equiping all models who can carry a powerfist with one, who needs strategy, just roll dice only.
hey guys, this has been clarified in 5th ed rulebook. we've been playing it wrong.
small rulebook page 42:
FIGHTING WITH 2 SINGLE-HANDED WEAPONS
(under the section 'a normal weapon and a special weapon')
These models gain one additional attack. All of the attacks, including the bonus attack, benefit from the special weapon's bonuses.
Power Fists, Thunder hammers and lightning claws are an exception to this. Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightning claw can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons.
[End Rules Quote]
So actually, a marine sergeant with basic 2 attacks get only 3 attacks on an assault, not 4.
what i mean is, there is already a handicap, maybe if we play it right with the rules, it'll be good enough, rather than have a house rule.
This is the part where I go... OHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Good one !!
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